State Wants to Zero Out the ORDA Budget!

[Spongeworthy]

Re: Law

The law is only settled in so far as stating the fact that a constitutional amendment would be required for the state to lease out Gore or Whiteface. A constitutional amendment cannot happen quickly, but it can happen. Placing a constitutional amendment on the ballot requires passing legislation in two consecutive sessions of the legislature. Once this occurs, the decision is up to the voters of New York. There is a mechanism.

You're absolutely correct, but the odds of that occurring with our dysfunctional legislature and the environmentalists who would lobby against it, let alone whether the electorate ultimately would approve it at the ballot box, make this a huge longshot.

 

[zski]

and in the meantime no skiing for 2 years

if it takes at least 2 yrs to approve a lease we could all be driving to VT for the next two seasons

many of us live in the the ADK so that would be aweful - are kids would not be able to be in NYSEF etc

Could Nysef run WF and Gore since they are non profit organizations?

 

[Snowballs]

One thing we can all agree on is next ski season may turn a corner. Most likely it will be an as bad or even worse ski product and for the first time, it's now easy to see the Exodus is real, it has begun . That will hurt the mtn. If they lose 10-15-20% of their business..

I bet they lost 5-8% this season.

 

[adkskier]

Content

I think that the average skier skied fewer days this season due to the lack of snow in their backyards. While this forum is frequented by critical, yet dedicated and loyal, skiers who get into good debates and analysis the average Gore skier has been pretty happy this year. I talk to a lot of skiers and a lot of visitors to the region. Some of us were displeased with the overall skiing product this season, but the vacationers and rec skiers who I met voiced overall satisfaction and told me what a great time they had. So...the "mass exodus" probably isn't happening. Now the one topic that came up time and time again during the early season was paid parking. However, I heard nothing about it during the holiday weeks. Gore might take a small hit (and I mean small) on season pass sales, but I wouldn't be counting them out of the game yet.

 

[Harvey44]

I think a private operator would be a double edged sword. Do you really think that a private operator if they were just leasing would have dumped the kind of money that ORDA / NYS has into Gore and Whiteface over the past 5-10 years?

I know the lifts are not all high speed quads, but there has been some serious investment and development. Snowmaking aside, I don't know any other mountain in the north east that has expanded terrain like Gore (or WF).

I commend Gore and WF management for getting the BR and lookout projects done. I think it was a great move to cut the ski bowl lift line and put the lower lift house in. Can you imagine how many years those projects would be on hold in the current economic environment? Probably another 5-10 years.

I wouldn't bet on a private operator opening any more of the mountain during midweek either unless there were the crowds to support it. Nobody is going to operate every lift unless the money is coming in to support it.

I think the biggest thing a private operator would do is market and promote the areas better. They would allocate more money to those activities and less to racing and skier development. This would also result in much bigger crowds - aka waiting in a lift line in VT for 20-30 minutes to get on a high speed quad.

I wish any of you heading to VT next year the best of luck. For midweek riding you are probably going to be happy. If you mostly ride on the weekends you'll be back.

It's probably no surprise that IMO there are a lot of good things about Gore.

On the downside is snowmaking capacity (desire, commitment whatever) for sure.

For now, I'm over it with parking. While I don't agree with it, it's capitalism, which IMO is better than the alternatives.

On the upside, in no particular order:

Lack of slopeside lodging
Proximity to state land (think about it)
Terrain
Tree skiing
Lack of crowds or lines
Local people of North Creek/Johnsburg
Cost of a seasons pass

One thing that Danno said really rings true for me. You can increase everything without limit, except total terrain. So, more parking, more uphill capacity, and more snowmaking will move the crowds ultimately onto the trails. I was amazed at how LITTLE patience I had for lines when I skied Belleayre this year.

I'll never understand hardcore skiers wanting more parking.

Want to ruin the Darkside? Put a high speed quad in place of that little grinder we've got.

I want more snowmaking. But I never want it to be as good as Killingtons. I realize there is little danger of that.

This whole issue of Gore vs Kmart is fascinating. Kmarts numbers aren't public but can be estimated.

From a revenue perspective Kmart looks to be about 3x the size of Gore. From an acreage perspective maybe 2x as big.

They do this thing on Alpine Zone - they call it a roll call... a simple question with a short answer.

Who's buying a pass in VT next year?

 

[Jeff]

I certainly agree that snowmaking capacity is an issue. There were times this winter where the end result was a poor product, and the explanations sometimes didn't quite add up: power outages, equipment failures, etc. That probably is my #1 issue, especially with the increase in acreage that requires snowmaking attention (BR, Ski Bowl).

My #2 issue is mid-week lift operations. Harv has an interesting interview with Mike Pratt plus some additional discussion at:
http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2010/03/midweek-lift-operations.html
Harv, that's another $5 you owe me for the link. But seriously, I think some improvements could be made, like an announced operating schedule for mid-week operations that had the HP chair running at least some mid-week days. I'd like to hear other opinions on that topic, either here or at Harvey Road.

My #3 issue WAS paid parking. Yeah, I'm mostly over it too, but I still beleive that some significant tweaks could be made to how it has been implemented that would leave both sides satisfied.

On Gore vs. Kmart, Harv I think you significantly underestimated Kmart's revenue and acreage. Especially the revenue. To keep the comparison apples-to-apples, I wouldn't count any of Kmart's accomodations revenues, just lift tickets and day lodge revenues (equipment rentals, cafeteria/restaurants, lessons). I'll betcha it's more in the range of 5 to 10 times Gore.

Oh, and a Vermont pass next year?... I don't think so.

 

[Frostillicus]

If Gore closes after this weekend and I can ski the rest of this season and next season on a K blackout pass, I am probably headed East.

 

[Snowballs]

In today's Post Star there's a guy named J.P. Moron. He's going to jail for dealing drugs. I guess he's properly named.

WTH....Is Leno reading my posts? I told you guys it was funny! 8)

Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:37 pm | (0) Comments

A local drug dealer's last name and a writeup in The Post-Star about him generated some laughs on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno on Monday.

Apparently amused by the defendant's name, Leno highlighted a Post-Star article on Glens Falls resident Jacques P. Moron in the portion of his show that focuses on funny headlines and newspaper write-ups

http://www.poststar.com/news/opinion/columns/ps/article_2f719196-4d86-11df-8efe-001cc4c03286.html

 

[TomCat]

In NJ, the governor stated that he intends to retain most funding for the parks dept so the overtaxed residents have a low cost option for vacation. This was said after cutting aid for schools and towns. ALthough there is no way skiing can be considered low cost, it provides some hope that the pols will see the value in supporting recreation.

tom

 

[Snowballs]

Today, 41 State Parks closed due to lack of a State Budget. NYRA, (horse racing) says they will close June 6. Saratoga's racing season is in jeopardy cuz they're not getting they're money from the Video Lottery Terminals which were approved 10 years ago but never implemented. In lieu of VLTs, the State is supposed to pay NYRA for the lack of VLT funds, which they haven't and an emergency bill submitted to loan the money to NYRA was not passed. Furthermore, NYRA is not receiveing it's share of money from NYC gambling operations. It's all corrupt!

How in the name of Man o' War, can these gambling institutions, which also receive massive State money,.....be perrenially broke?!!! This has been going on for years! Corruption.

You'ld think the braintrust in Albany would take a cue from what's happening in Greece. As one reads about Greece, et al, it all sounds strikingly familiar to New York's issues.

Given Albany's incredible ineptness....How long until the Financial Markets lose confidence in New York, as they did Greece, and accelerate New York's financial demise? I'm more than a little concerned about when New York tries to borrow major money again. ORDA's probably not too confident in any State funding for ORDA. But they likely have more eggs in their nest than they let on.

Wonder what the status of ORDA's Federal funding is? It won't be long until the world points it's finger at America and says "You have to reduce your deficit!" Good luck doing that.

In the meantime, the legislators in Albany are only working three days a week and they have NOT had any conference meetings on the budget in well over a month.

 

[Spongeworthy]

How in the name of Man o' War, can these gambling institutions, which also receive massive State money,.....be perrenially broke?!!! This has been going on for years! Corruption.

That pretty much nails it. NYRA was supposedly losing money even during the boom years.

 

[Snowballs]

Wow! It's amazing this is still going on. Remember when they shook down the State for 600 mil a few years back? Plus they hadn't paid the State it's cut! And the "do gooder " Eliot Spitzer caved into them? I wonder now if they didn't know about his prostitution habit and threatened to expose him unless he gave in to their latest extortion. Course, some other Spitzer enemy did it anyway.

It's unbelievable they don't go in there with warrants and audit the begeezes out of them and put alot of people in prison. This is costing the State hundreds of millions of dollars, on an on going basis. The whole thing reeks of MOB and or "we'll squeal on you, too!", a very effective political tactic.