Interconnect

i also heard it's on hold.

ah, yes. buy a new lift. have it delivered. have the money to install it and the snowmaking equipment. have the operating money.

then......

cancel the whole fudged up idea! :lol: :lol: :lol:

gotta love it.

looks like there's possibly a new lift avaliable for Hickory Mtn. maybe snow making equipment too. if Orda holds an uninstalled lift for a while, maybe they'll wanna deal.

sorry, but's it's almost as laughable as that other half baked idea.............the Snow Trains!!! hehehe.
 
and before anybody gets their panties in a bunch.........

NEWS FLASH: THERE IS NO SKI IN/SKI OUT CAPABILITES BETWEEN THE SKI BOWL AND GORE!!!

don't believe me?

then why would they even propose a chair lift from the base of the ski bowl to the base of the gondi? hmmmm? (inter mtn chair, lift #14)

still don't believe me?

then look at the maps they supplied. not only does it show lift #14, it also shows YOU CAN'T SKI FROM THE SUMMIT OF THE SKI BOWL BACK TO GORE!
that proposed trail has an uphill section of 80-100ft+ elevational climb! enjoy! ( hence the need for lift #14, a fixed grip 25-30 minute lift ride)

before the PR people, the apologetics, the enforcers and the outright manure hucksters regurgitate the myriad of BS offered before.... this whole project is a pig in a poke, a red herring, half baked pie in the sky, a snowball's chance in ..........

NOBODY'S gonna walk the two miles from the ski bowl to North Creek IN SKI BOOTS! DUH!

ride a shuttle?

NOBODY'S gonna take time out of their ski day to go to North Creek! DUH!

we already have connectors between Gore and North Creek. they're called roads. they're open 24/7/365 and they go ALL THE WAY INTO DOWNTOWN NORTH CREEK!

IF people wanna go to North Creek, THEY'LL GO AFTER SKIING AND THEY'LL DRIVE THEIR FREEGIN CARS THERE! DUH!

local job creation? then why do the plans have a large building labeled " dormitory for ski bowl village employees"? local hires already have a place to live, cause..... THEY LIVE HERE!

construction jobs? there's little solid evidence Front Street will ever build. now it's looking more and more like they won't. indeed, has one shovel even broken ground?

like the snow trains there's alotta amazing gullibility surrounding this project. millions were spent on the snow trains and they were supposed to be running in 2001. has anybody see one? well? where are they?

like the unicorn, THEY DON'T EXIST!!!
 
I didn't want to waste my time signing up to correct the dude's rant over on that other board, but he seemed to forget that two million plus got pulled out of the Lookout project so Gore could finish off their kiddie building a couple of years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for each of our two great areas getting as much improvement as possible, but, in our current economic environment, we should be glad that anything is being considered.
 
i watched a good bit of the Orda meeting video. besides a "hat in hand" Mike Pratt looking awfully nervous, some of the board members seem to have some serious reservations on this project-which may be just a "grandstanding posture". the main concern seemed to be will it generate enough extra capital to cover the $250,000.00 yearly operating costs that Pratt speculates it will cost TO OPERATE THE NEW LIFT. they want a financial committment mainly from Front Street to cover any financial shortfall for future years. any help from the local towns/county is also sought. they don't seem to think it will be self sufficient. they don't wanna pass any lift installation resolution until they have a financial commitment from Front Street. As the owner of the Mirror Lake Inn repeated often.....as soon as they pass the resolution to install the lift, Front Street gets a " windfall profit " on its property even if Front Street never builds. Front Street would have the only slopeside housing/accommadations in the adk's, a fact that seemed to particularly perplex him.

the general timeline for this project was stated as installing the trails and snowmaking this year and the lift next year. that may be pushed back now that it's been tabled till talks with Front Street can be held. as Pratt noted that's atleast a 2 month loss on this construction season as Orda meets every 2 months. if money can not be "extracted from Front Street ", the existing funding may be better spent installing more trails on Burnt Ridge as stated by one board member. again, probably grandstanding.

fwiw, ostensibly the trails to be installed first are on the south side and are NOT the north side trails that connect to Front Street's property. those come later.

on the bright side, revenue for last season was up an impressive 11% !!! wish Megatron was still here so i could say.." Told ya so!"

expenses have also been reduced substantially. this was accomplished by switching to propane heating for the two base lodges, less use of rented diesel aircompressors for snow making, CLOSING AREAS MIDWEEK(which Pratt says will continue!) and the abilty to make snow over more of the mtn simultaineously on the same night as " one cold night is worth a week of warmer nights ". the order of opening terrain early season will remain the gondi,topridge, straightbrook,etc....w/the Ski Bowl last to get snow made. also the Ski Bowl will close mid March.

MORE GOOD NEWS!?....

the new lift at the Bowl would be installed in the same location as the old a 1400' t-bar. this lift line was never open for skiing before. it WOULD be open in the future and Pratt claims it is as steep as Rumor's headwall!!! i don't know. it sounds suspect to me. it's hard to imagine a t-bar ascending a grade as steep as Rumor. I hope the Board members had their boots on.

therein lays my my concerns with this project. there's alot of Official BS surrounding it. the statements and reasoning offered are easily refuted. it's been my experience in such cases that the truth is concealed because it's not gonna be as stated and the people get screwed so a few may profit. what you generally end up with is a screwed up project and as Orda fears, it may not be viable. time will tell.

if it ends up being great terrain with true ski in/ski out(without mega schlepping) and IT DOESN'T CAUSE SEASON PASS /DAY TICKETS PRICES TO SKYROCKET OR LACK ENOUGH SKIERS TO STAY OPEN.........i'll be the first to say JOB WELL DONE.
 
Hard to believe it cost $250,000 to operate a lift for a year. I guess most of that is energy and maintenance. That must include snowmaking on the trails served.

Can they really put more trails in on the BRQ pod? While we could use a "cut-over" towards the bottom...I thought most of the interior was the cirque.

Not sure exactly where the bottom of the BRQ is on the map below. Anybody know? To me it looks like...if you can get across Roaring Brook...you could ski from the top of the new lift to the bottom of BRQ. I haven't actually skied or walked Roaring...is it a major ravine? They put that HUGE culvert at the bottom of Topridge that crosses Straightbrook. Maybe it involves something like that.



PS...adding new terrain at a cost that requires closing the darkside. Grr.
 
$250K, etc

I believe that the $250K operational budget is for both the new lift and snow making on the associated trails. The ORDA board has a special meeting this Friday at 2pm in the Hall of Fame room at the Olympic skating facility. At that time they will continue the discussion of the lift installation and the Centerplate contract. When they last met, they intended to hold up Frontstreet for financial support. Upon further consideration (in other words...people in the know hit the directors up side the head with reality) they are expected to drop the extortion move. In fact they have not bothered to contact the developer to make their ransom demands known. Somehow the board realized that many private entities have benefited from ORDA investments and that they have never before tried to extort money from the beneficiaries (e.g. Sergei Lussi, Ed Weinbrecht). As much as Frontstreet may be the highest profile beneficiary of the interconnect, other North Creek businesses ranging from Stewart's to the Copperfield will benefit from increased skier visits and traffic closer to North Creek. A large contingent of North Creek business owners and politicians are expected to attend the meeting. While not allowed to make comments during the meeting their presence may have some effect. We may even see the chairman recognize Senator Little and/or Assemblywoman Sayward and allow them to speak. Predicted result? Trail cutting will begin before the end of May!

In other breaking news, ORDA hired a consultant who, after smoking some crack, concluded that if ORDA takes the food concession in house and increases food prices, they will make more money. This is really interesting in that other similar entertainment businesses (ballparks, race tracks) and universities have concluded that contracting out food service is the most efficient and cost effective way to go. Centerplate has done an excellent job (well far better than those who came before them) with the food at Gore and Whiteface. I'd guess that they will lose money and screw up a good thing if they take it in house. This Friday the ORDA board will decide whether to renew the Centerplate contract or not. In any event, Centerplate would be on board for one more year. Now if we could get the Tannery Lounge staff to take a trip to Whiteface for an attitude adjustment, they could improve too. Somehow they lag behind in terms of customer service and overall quality when compared to the bar at Whiteface or even the food court operation at Gore.
 
Thanks for the update

adkskier thanks for an update from the ground. I didn't have time to watch the video but I was floored to hear that ORDA all of a sudden wanted more money from frontstreet. Its not like this just popped up last week. This project has been in the works for years. I won't say that front street has bent over backwards but they have agreed to quite a few conditions already including buying a fire truck and building a supplemental firehouse at the ski bowl, etc. etc.. They have also worked with the town to do all the land swaps, etc. They may have even been open to contributing to the operational cost of the lift if they had been asked a year or two ago. How insane is it to demand this after the lift has already arrived? Extortion is a good word. Please give us an update on the Friday meeting when you hear something.

Harvey - Roaring Brook does have some pretty good ravines, waterfalls, etc. along it. If you have ever done the ski trip from the north quad down the pipeline trail you cross a rather substantial bridge to get over it. I am not sure if they are planning on that being a "two way" bridge or if they are going to build another bridge above or below it. It is not a bad spring/ hike up to the bridge and the north quad if you do it from the ski bowl. It will definately get your heart rate up. When you cross the bridge onto the "Gore" side there is a work road. If you go right you end up at the North Quad. If you go left I am not sure where you end up - I am assuming you would end up on the work road below the BRQ. I am not sure how they would cut that in to get you to the BRQ. I am still not sure why they didn't put the base of the BRQ about another 150 feet further down into the woods. Would have given them more pitch to work with from the lodge and I think the interconnect trail would have been easier. Who knows?

The whole ski train idea is half baked - why not just offer scheduled bus service from port authority now? Adirondak Trailways already serves the area with service from port authority and a stop in ridgewood, nj along the way. They just don't go all the way to NC (warrensburg maybe?). Why not just run a shuttle from the closest ADK Trailways stop to NC in the wintertime? Charge 15 or 20 bucks each way. The state could subsidize it and it would have saved millions on track improvements, etc.

As for the interconnect I know there are a whole bunch of haters out there and I understand your views about spending money elsewhere on the mountain, opening more, better terrain, etc. Some of the statements and projections by politicians and others are a bit overblown. The state comptroller did a fairly good analysis of the economic impact in 2004. The guy is a crook and probably had some political motivation but here is the report if you haven't seen it: http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/mar04/031104.htm. My feeling is that the interconnect and associated development will be good, if not great for everyone from NC businesses to midweek day trip skiers. I don't think we will know how good the new trails will be until they get them built out. I do know that a very high percentage of current visitors to Gore are day trippers. They help keep the lights on but they aren't spending a ton of money (at the mountain or in town) and there aren't a whole lot of them hitting the place during the week (other than Jimmer:). Those people will for the most part continue to take a right off of PVR and ignore downtown. The more beds the area has and the more press it gets the more people will come and stay for 4 or 5 days or a week. This will mean more volume midweek which will in turn mean that they have to keep more of the mountain open. Weekends may get a little crazy, but I for one will love being able to access the mountain from North Creek instead of dealing with going up to the base. I love the idea of taking the new ski bowl lift up on a powder day and heading over the the BRQ to get first tracks on Sagamore. Even with additional visitors I don't think the mountain will get overwhelmed. Those additional people who are staying overnight will need more restaurants, shops, etc. That means more jobs (maybe for locals maybe not) and more options for visitors and locals alike. I think the added development may drive more year round events as well that will help sustain the area year round.

My 2cents

D
 
:shock: Wow. Great input and info from Adkskier and Danzilla. I'm very interested in the future of North Creek and I really appreciate the time you both took to lay it out. To me...it's really hard to care about the people and town of NC without wanting this to go through. Yeah it may make Gore more like every other mountain in VT, but the economic benefit could really be big. You gotta want that for your people.

Would really appreciate the cliff notes on Fridays 2pm meeting.

Love the image of North Creek business leaders sitting silently in the meeting, but making their presence known.

I also love the image of Danzilla (or me!) snagging some long powder runs down Sagamore, with his car in the lot at the ski bowl. (Are they going to add parking down there?)

Again guys...thanks.

EDIT: By this map...it looks like the trail crosses Roaring Brook around the "R" in "restricted" in the topo I posted above:


 
Money

The money has been there for some time. The ORDA board released the money for installation of the ski bowl lift, trail cutting and installation of associated snow making.
 
http://www.goremtn.com/SEIS/press/Map_2_-_SEIS_Project_Relation_Map.pdf

this map, supplied by Front Street, et al.......shows the locations of the cross mtn chair-lift # 14 and the connector trail the runs from the Ski Bowl back to BRQ.

lift # 14 is a transportation lift ONLY. it DOES NOT leave a skier atop any trails. notice how long it is.......35% longer than the Gondi! at rates achieved by fixed grip lifts this would be a 25-30 minute ride.

the connector trail might look do-able AT THE MAGNIFICATION that it opens in. if you increase the magnification to 100% or more then click and drag to see the trail crossing Roaring Brook you'll see the elevational difficulties....aka uphill! this is followed by a flat section. the topo lines are tight at this stream's location which means steep stream banks, etc. this is easiest to see in the original magnification or on the first map posted by Harv in this thread. a bridge will be needed to cross this stream.

just some FYI.
 
who said anything about that gondi? hmmm? NOBODY! that lift was to go to the summit of Gore mtn.

cross mtn chair #14 is a different lift, still proposed. it's only needed/proposed because they know there's no ski in/ski out between the two areas. why else would THIS LIFT even be needed/proposed? see, it leaves you at the bottom of the mtns aka you can't ski from it. therefore, it's only purpose is to transport people between the two areas cause you can't ski in/ski out. the powers that be are aware of this.....that's why they proposed this lift.

i suspect the PR people are trying to muddy the water to cloud other people's view. best get the boots on.
 
..........it should also be noted that although ORDA recently passed the resolution to go ahead with the project, they inserted language that permits them to...."delay, revise or suspend" the area's operation. this language was unaminously approved. no it wasn't Lussi or Weibrecht who inserted this language.

ORDA seems to have it's doubts about the viablitiy of this project.
 
If the proposed cross-mountain lift #14 is installed with a mid-station that allowed unloading in both directions at the BRQ, it would eliminate the necessity for skiers to endure the flatness of the Cedars approach to BRQ and would integrate the BRQ terrain better with the rest of the mountain. Additionally, a return to the BRQ from the Pipeline trail will be a major improvement in integrating Burnt Ridge with the rest of the mountain, assuming the elevational difficulties pointed out previously can be worked out where it crosses Roaring Brook. That return to BRQ would mean that a skier could get to the BRQ from the top of just about any other lift on the mountain without going through the base area and utilizing Cedars. Wouldn't have to endure the falts below Windy Hill either. And as long as the cross-mountain lift was running, skiers could be provided access to the Darskide and North terrain without the necessity of running those lifts, although a 15 to 20 minute fixed-grip ride from the ski bowl back to the base area is a pretty stiff penalty. That penalty could be avoided if the BRQ was kept running when the High Peaks chair and North Quad are shut down. I think Gore needs to be very sensitive towards the issues of 1) improving access to the BRQ and integrating BR with the rest of the mtn, 2) not adding any more flats anywhere on the mtn and 3) finding ways they can save costs with mid-week lift closures that don't also result in significant terrain closures.
 
Somebody help me, I'm feeling rather stupid.

I know that, at one time, there was a lift that connected the base of the ski bowl and the current base. (That's what I was calling the Gondi to Nowhere.) To me it looks like that lift had been axed - in the most recent plan.

On the aerial photo that came from skibowlvillage.com (front street website) that I posted above....I don't see the lift that connects the bases on that plan - which is what made me think that that lift was no longer in the plan.

It looks like you ride to the top of the new ski bowl lift and ski down (or over or up) to the bottom of BRQ.

What am I missing? Which is lift #14? Are there really two more lifts going in or only one?

I only see one additional lift planned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
coach hats sale
Replies
0
Views
40
cuemica
C
K
Payday Loans Basics
Replies
0
Views
47
kKeikoSampsond
K
A
Where Are the best EMT Certification Classes?
Replies
0
Views
49
Arniotes40284
A
D
Rapid Cash Around The Wire On line Payday Innovations
Replies
0
Views
111
Dulce333Schroe
D
C
Effective Link Building Tips for 2011
Replies
0
Views
107
cScottWaltonx
C
Back
Top